Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: This is the Owlcast, the official podcast of ACS Athens.
Listen to the exciting story of the American community schools of Athens.
Check out what drives all the members of our international community of learners as we create the education of the future here's. John Papadakis.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: It'S one of those concepts that without a doubt will define human life and activity in the 21st century and beyond it, it is already changing the way people perceive the world and maybe their own existence. What started as another technology craze or marketing ploy from social media companies, now it seems to take a life of its own, permeating everything from fashion design to culture, gaming and entertainment, all the way to education. We are talking about the metaverse, or as some people describe it, as the inevitable evolution of the Internet. Metaverse is defined as a three dimensional online environment in which users, represented by their 3D virtual copies of themselves, called avatars, interact with each other in virtual spaces that are independent from the real physical world. Whether this is materialized through a VR set or VR glass, a set of large screens, or through holographic avatars, metaverse is the latest iteration of ideas that go back to 1938, when French poet and playwright Antonin ARTO uses the term virtual reality in his collection of essays, The Theater and Its Double. Another throwback milestone in metaverse history is in 1962, when American filmmaker Morton Helig builds the Sensorama, a machine that simulated the experience of riding a motorcycle through New York City via a 3D movie, vibrating chair, fan, and smells. Today's guest in the outcast is metaverse expert and futurist Constantino Roselli, who pokes us with quite provocative topics as what is reality and what is imagined. If J. K. Rowling and Sherlock Holmes had a child, it would be Constantino Roselli. He combines elements nobody sees, raises brand identities you had never thought were there. He's the founder and CEO of the branding and digital agency Weird Authentic People, co founder and CVO of Netizens, digital fashion studio and multibrand ecommerce, and a member of the Infinite Club, a club that studies the future in the world. Constantino challenges himself to read 100 books a year. He loves snow, red wine, fast cars, and art, as he believes that the future of humanity belongs to artists of any form.
Stay with us as we attempt to break into the virtual realm of the metaverse with Constantino Roselli. Today we discuss experiencing the reality of metaverse, defining the new reality, and how much of our reality is real.
What would make Leonardo DA Vinci furious?
The source of the metaverse?
Did the Beatles invent teenagers? And the importance of asking what if versus how to.
Metaverse is one of these new hybrid.
[00:03:50] Speaker C: Words that come to disrupt, bring change, and alter mentalities on our lives. You are one of the professionals who invest time and thinking on this on a daily basis. You describe yourself as a futurist. What is the future you foresee at this point and what is that you hope to see?
[00:04:11] Speaker D: Okay, nice question.
I'm thinking that as a futurist, actually we are not profits. We analyze data and that comes from the past and today and we predict, let's say, tomorrow, we sometimes want to see the future in different direction that the data shows to us and we try to see how we can see the alternative. So I want to feel that right now, my predictions, let's say, and my willingness are aligned on what happened in the future. So I believe in ten years from now, the metaverse will transform the culture that we have, the industrial culture, to the metaverse culture. And that means that it leads us to what I call avatars economy. It transform the people from citizens to netizens.
[00:05:10] Speaker C: So let's backtrack a little bit. Metaverse again is a new word in our vocabulary. We've been talking about virtual reality. We've been talking about augmented reality. Now we have metaverse in very few words and in a simple way of explaining what is metaverse at this point.
[00:05:29] Speaker D: Okay, a lot of think spent in 2022 about the question and to try to define, let's say, what metaverse is. But for me, the metaverse is an idea, is a revolution, it's not a tool or something that you can define. It the virtual reality, the hardware, the technology, the experience inside of that are that just the medium that realize the metaverse. So if we want to define the metaverse is what the world says beyond the reality that we have right now, beyond the universe as we know it. So that means how that reflects the world is that the metaverse is something that will evolve human beings, societies and everything that we know as a universe today to the next level.
[00:06:19] Speaker C: It is a very provocative idea to say we're changing the reality.
[00:06:23] Speaker D: Exactly.
[00:06:24] Speaker C: Is it changing the reality or developing into something much bigger, much better, much different?
[00:06:33] Speaker D: I believe that it's not change or develop, but will be defined actually what reality is.
[00:06:41] Speaker C: You make your own reality in a sense.
[00:06:43] Speaker D: Not exactly. I mean, if we take it from.
[00:06:46] Speaker C: Science, I'm asking questions that people are usually asked because it's not an easy concept to grasp.
[00:06:52] Speaker D: Yeah, I try to make it more simple. Let's say, but in mathematics, for example, we say that this is the real numbers and in real numbers you have also numbers that are not real are fantastic numbers or imagined numbers. In our life today, for example, we do things or we thought about things that are not real. When you read a book, when you follow a story and your main character on that story, it's someone that you care about it, but it's not real. And if you think reality in terms of tangible things so the half of our life is completely lie. But reality is not only tangible things and this is why the people confuse what is real and what is not. So if we include imagination, which includes the movies, the music, all the art that we do around the world or the virtual reality that comes right now, then we can understand that reality is not only just one thing, that there are a lot of things that combine and conclude our lives. So in that way they will be enhance our reality. I mean, they will make us think reality in a broader way. And if we can do that, this realization, it will make us to change the world in a better place.
[00:08:11] Speaker C: So we have to realize our reality.
[00:08:14] Speaker D: Exactly. That's what you tell the metaverse will help us to do that.
[00:08:18] Speaker C: If you had to confront a futurist of the mid 20th century at the beginning of the technological revolution in the era of computers, would you say that we are head or behind of these predictions or did we take a completely different route?
[00:08:34] Speaker D: I believe that everyone, every futurist and every inventor, let's say in any age, in any era, they will be ahead of that. I used to say that the people like Leonardo DA Vinci, for example, if he was here and he wants us to teach his knowledge, he will be completely furious by saying that what you do, those old things go in front and do your own things because they innovate in their era. So if I met Alan Turing, for example, who is the father of what we call computers today, he will be so innovative, he will understand completely the topic. And I think that he had the same ideas then, but not the tools to make it happen.
[00:09:23] Speaker C: Do you see challenges or limitations in what you believe the metaverse can address?
How are you contributing in this particular situation and either augment the capability or restrict the challenges?
[00:09:40] Speaker D: Yeah, there are a lot of challenges. One of them is money.
Because to build something in this field, in the metaverse, you need supercomputers, you need super software, you need cutting edge technology. And cutting edge technology is cost a lot for the moment and you need to be in front all the time of what exists and to change constantly your equipment. So money is challenge on that point.
I don't see technology as a challenge because everything is evolving. I mean, what we don't have today we need to work in order to have it next day. So I think that software and technology are evolving. Another challenge is the mentality of people. So in that way I stopped, let's say trying to convince people to change. But I go direct to the source, which are the kids of today, I mean generation Z and generation Alpha.
[00:10:34] Speaker C: Why do you call them the source?
[00:10:36] Speaker D: I call them the source because they will do the change. I just want to give them the tool. They don't know right now. I mean, they have this mentality but they want the tools in order to change things. So I used to say a quote that if you wanted to change the old, you need to give the tools to the young generations in order to create the new. So we are not the people that we created. They will create it. We just give them the framework and the tools to do it.
[00:11:01] Speaker C: And the idea sometimes exactly, but sometimes the ideas come from them and we have to realize their reality, right?
[00:11:09] Speaker D: Exactly. I used to say that the Beatles didn't invent the teenagers. They just show up and lead them somewhere interesting.
[00:11:20] Speaker C: In your role, in your particular involvement in the Metaverse, what projects, what initiatives are you involved in right now?
[00:11:28] Speaker D: Building virtual spaces, hyper realistic AI avatars. This is our main concept that they have a completely different behavior than just reply to keystrokes or something like that. I don't want to see right now the avatars we have. It's just obedience to what we do and they don't reflect on emotions or any other things that we as people we do. They are not so physical or natural. This is the first thing. The other is the education.
And one of the topics that we work right now is the research. We research and understand how the people will behave inside using big communities in order to do that. And we have a lot of collaborations with universities around the world, the ACS and a lot of private companies that.
[00:12:21] Speaker C: They want to contribute with our project you mentioned education. I mean, obviously talking about young people talking about education, there must have been a lot of things that you envision in your role regarding the Metaverse. Can we be a little bit more specific? What kind of student in two 4510 years might expect to see going into a classroom that links to Metaverse, links to that virtual augmented reality that you are talking about?
[00:12:53] Speaker D: We have to set the question to them. And there are a lot of things, a lot of ways that you can set a question to kids by put them in the environment, that they have things to do and then to navigate them on, teach them what is everything there. But they should come with a result. They should come with what if questions. The most important is to teach the kids today on how do questions like what if, not how to we used to raise in a world that first of all, responsibility is not ours, it's on our parents, it's on the school, it's on the government. So everything that happened, we have someone to blame of it and to demand things from that. This is our society, this is how citizens, how the cities or the sociality on the cities works today. We have to teach people that they are alone to embrace this individuality, to understand that they can become valuable nodes on the huge network that they serve. Value together and they are very important to their position, physically, digitally, everywhere. This comes with a great responsibility. And as uncle of Spider Man says, that great responsibility, great power comes with great responsibility. So this is the great power that they have. And we have to educate them how to become self aware about what they are, to embrace what they have, to understand that their knowledge is not about to take a degree in order to take a job. But the knowledge can create them a business around them, a sustainable self existence. And that they are a beacon in this humanity and their name is unique and as much more understand that they can do anything they want.
[00:14:54] Speaker A: You are listening to The Owlcast, the official podcast of AC Ass Athens.
[00:15:15] Speaker B: Our guest today is Constantino Roselli, a futurist and metaverse visionary. Stay with us as we continue to talk about technology seen as the next level of our biological evolution.
Building one world without borders.
Being a storyteller in metaverse to relate with what you create.
Redefining wellness through the new technologies, parental involvement in guiding children through the new digital world and the priority of living for fun and beauty.
[00:15:58] Speaker C: Well, we're well into the 21st century right now. There's no point of saying the schools in 21st century will be, but because we are well into the 21st century, schools should attempt to provide students with much different skill sets to prepare them for the world, as you very nicely put it. Skills like media literacy, critical thinking instead of memorization, and of course, steam infused learning are a part of every class. What are some skills that exposure to the metaverse would add to the profile of the students of today and the next few years?
[00:16:40] Speaker D: Of course, there are a lot of skills that the obvious skills. The obvious skills is about technology. Learn everything about technology. The thing for me on the technology is not to teach someone how to use, how to develop or how to the hardwares are combined. The most important thing is to understand that technology is a biological projection of ourselves. That means that it hears like an outside, let's say organ of ourselves, like a heart or liver or whatever that help us to evolve, bring us to the next level of human species. So if you understand that it's completely different, just to understand that it's a tool or something, that it's not so important or is in our bedside table like a smartphone. So if you understand that, then we will take care of that. To understand how this evolution will happen, the second skill that we have to understand is about vulnerability. Our existence in this world. We need to understand that vulnerability is not bad. It's our strength and we have to use it. We have to embrace that. And to start from this point to understand the world around us. This gives us responsibility, this give us empathy and a lot of other things that we need to do. Because what we want to build in the end, we want to build one world. No borders, no gravity, no things that they keep us in a position that we are. We need to liberate our inner selves and the powers that we have inside only by crafting. Be a masters on those skills in this way to understand art, for example, because if we understand art in many forms, art is not only just the paintings or how to design something, but art is in its core. It gives us the ability to imagine a world in different ways. So if you have technology and you are the expert on that, if you don't understand why you use it, then you cannot build good things. We saw that in the first attempt of Metaverse by Mark Zuckerberg because he's only oriented about technology. He wasn't able to deliver something that people understand what it is, what they have to do with that.
[00:18:50] Speaker C: And why do you still don't?
[00:18:52] Speaker D: Exactly because they are so fond about technology and things that they can do mastering of development and here I built an avatar so what I have to do with that? We need the next part right now. We need the behavioral we need to understand why people play games. I mean, the gamers don't understand the metaverse because it's not relevant with them. So we need to understand how people think about it. I mean, this is why the meta came with avatars without legs. So we need to bring people inside by giving emotions. And this is the only thing that you have to know. The other one skill. Is about storytelling. If you become a great storytelling, then you can create content then we can create amazing emotional things for the people to follow you so why to follow an AI avatar? Why to follow a virtual character in social media? Because it can delivers great stories that makes you cry, smile or think about your life or makes all of those things can you do that? So the people that right now create things in digital way then can create a lot of emotion stories to us by mastering all of those things that I said.
[00:20:05] Speaker C: There has to be a way to relate to what you create in the metaverse. You made a great point about the inner self, and I wanted to talk about wellness in personal and professional life, which is the talk of the last at least five years now, but especially in education. How do you balance the potential benefits of the metaverse with concerns about digital addiction disconnection from the physical world? How can a provider of services address these issues?
[00:20:40] Speaker D: I think that the definition of balance between physical world and digital need to be revised, need to think about again how to define all of those things. Because the definitions that we have in our mind and in our papers are coming from the old days that they didn't have technology.
For example, they said don't play so much PlayStation and go out to play. But that days that we play outside with safety and we had the space. To play outside are gone so it's not a nostalgic we don't need to cry about that because the statistics and the researches that happened today they said that the mind of the people that the kids that they play a lot of games. They are more intelligent and they are more aware, more connected with people, and they have less violent behaviors. So we need to revise about those definition of balance. I will take my kids that I never put any restriction to them from the day one that they born about taking a smartphone or an iPad and not only I gave to them without any restriction but I also download applications that had to do with their education and their grow. And I played with them. And I see the difference behavior of my kids with the kids that they had restrictions that they raised without any complex let's. Say of loss or willing to have something that they never had. They are less violent and they are focused on become more connected with the people. So the balance comes through the digital. There is no something that you have to create a physical world without the digital existence. It's the same reality but your role.
[00:22:32] Speaker C: As a parent was crucial. You said you downloaded some apps exactly that were for their age and so on. I know that there are parents out there that they have the tablet or the screen as part of the babysitting process and then you say okay, the kid is going to go to school, they're going to learn how to use technology and so on. Is this enough though? Because at the formative years when the child starts thinking a specific way you have to have the context of the parental intervention and you I mean your kids are fortunate enough that you are literate in this particular technology so I guess someone who listens to us and thinks would I do that to my child? It depends who you are. I think at the end, if you don't know how to use technology, might not be the best idea to have this thing. So it's up to us, in a sense. So the same way that we say don't let the kids grow up on their own, okay, you have to have some guidance.
[00:23:39] Speaker B: The same thing.
[00:23:40] Speaker C: You don't have to grow up online or in a digital realm.
[00:23:45] Speaker D: Unfortunately, we don't have schools for adults.
[00:23:48] Speaker C: Yeah, well, the world is the school for adults. But it's because plug and play.
[00:23:55] Speaker D: I mean that right now that we have a new environment. We speak about metaverse, we speak about something that the people doesn't understand and they need time to swallow it or to digest or to understand. That how it's working for me. I am constantly learner. I'm a constantly student. I mean all the people they should read books and educate themselves till the day they die. Studying never stop and they should do that. I mean, unfortunately there is no obligation about that. So this is a problem with the parents. They don't understand that there is a progress outside of the school. So they stay on what they just learn in order to do their jobs. And of course, as a parent you cannot avoid to give a laptop or a smartphone to your kid in order to leave you alone for half an hour if you do it. Only this isn't the unhealthy part. I mean, you're a human being, so you cannot be perfect. We far from perfection. We don't want perfection, we need progress and improvement. But you need to understand how the iPad is working from the benefit of your kid and you and you need not just to take an iPad because you see an advertising or you're following the conference of Apple. That means that you know what is the benefit to you. So you need to go back to school and to ask questions, you need to stay curious as your kid too.
[00:25:16] Speaker C: So what's a good book for a parent to read?
Maybe a knee, you know, do you have a suggestion?
[00:25:24] Speaker D: There are a lot of books, but one of my favorite books is The Icarus Deception from Seth Godin and who in this way express how the world is working today and that the marketing is not about only do your job but is permit. All the Tribes is a good book also from Seth Godin. There is one book that is a trilogy and I love this because makes me think about a lot of things in my life and that calls The War of Art, not the Art of War, but because it plays with the words. Stephen Presfield wrote The War of Art. And this book is about how you as a creative people, you're afraid to move outside your creativity and you fight with something that they call resistance. And you live a saddle life because you always want to write a book or to paint that paint or to do something but you fear to do it because you believe that this is not your calling or something like else. And it's really really written in a simple language that makes you understand that everything that you do in your life it should be for beauty and fun. And if we forgot that we live in a world that fun and beauty should be the first in our list, then we don't need to speak about balance of physical or virtual world because we don't live at all. Oscar Wilde says that some people exist, some other just live. And you should understand where you are in the existence or in life. So this is what we have to challenge and if we understand that, then we have to choose between balance of virtual world or digital or whatever.
[00:27:06] Speaker C: I think that's a very good point to end our discussion right here. Mr. Costantino Roselli, thank you so much for being with us.
[00:27:15] Speaker D: Thank you for having me.
[00:27:16] Speaker C: Very thought provoking ideas.
And I think that if we go back to our families, I think the balance that we need to strike is not so much, as you said, between the real and the digital world, but how do we define it as parents towards our kids so that they lead this kind of revolution in the future. Thank you so much for being with us.
[00:27:40] Speaker D: Thank you for having me.
[00:27:43] Speaker A: You are listening to The Owlcast, the official podcast of ACS Athens. Make sure you subscribe to The Owlcast on Google podcasts, spotify and Apple podcasts. This has been production of the ACS Athens Media Studio.
