Episode Transcript
[00:00:09] Speaker A: This is the owlcast, the official podcast of ACS Athens.
Listen to the exciting story of the American community schools of Athens.
Check out what drives all the members of our international community of learners as we create the education of the future.
Here's Champa Padakis.
[00:00:50] Speaker B: Welcome to another episode of our ACS Athens Outcast. This is the President's Edition. Today's OWLCAST is all about the cutting edge of science, education and innovation. Dr. Pelonis welcomes a very special guest, Dr. Meenakshi Wadhwa, a celebrated astrophysicist, planetary scientist and educator whose work has deepened our understanding of the solar system and our place within it. The President of ACS Athens, Dr. Peggy Pelones, has invited Dr. Wadhwa to speak with our students about the wonders of space and the importance of scientific inquiry. In this episode, we listen to Dr. Wadhwa's inspiring journey, beginning with her upbringing in India at the foothills of the Himalayas. From an early fascination with the natural world to her pursuit of geology, physics and chemistry, she discovered her passion for uncovering the secrets of planetary formation. Her curiosity propelled her into top graduate programs in the United States, ultimately leading her to contributions at NASA and research positions that placed her at the forefront of planetary science. Dr. Wadhwa's groundbreaking work has included hunting for meteorites in Antarctica, an experience that not only unearthed countless specimens, but also showcased the collaborative and exhilarating nature of field research.
She has significantly advanced our understanding of the early solar system, helping to determine precise ages of ancient celestial materials. Along the way, Dr. Wadhua has assumed leadership roles at institutions such as Arizona State University, NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and professional scientific societies. Beyond her research on the origins of water in the solar system and her central involvement in the ambitious Mars sample return mission, Dr. Wadhua also dedicates herself to sharing knowledge with the next generation. She champions greater representation of women and underrepresented groups in stem, emphasizing the value of nurturing talent and curiosity in all young minds. Her dedication to mentorship, education and outreach exemplifies her belief that everyone, regardless of background, deserves a chance to participate in the scientific enterprise. Today, we have the Privilege of hearing Dr. Wadhwa's reflections on her career, her vision for the future of space exploration, and her advice for young students. Stay tuned and listen to a profound and inspiring conversation that will prompt us to look up at the stars with renewed wonder and encourage the next generation of explorers, dreamers, and innovators.
[00:03:46] Speaker C: You have an impressive career spanning planetary science, meteoritics and isotope geochemistry can you take us through your journey. How did you get started in the field? And what led you to where you are today?
[00:04:00] Speaker D: Gosh, that's a lot of questions in one. But actually, I grew up in India. As a little girl, I was very interested in science. I loved anything to do with the natural world. I spent a lot of time outdoors. And I actually, I grew up in the foothills of the Himalayas, which are, of course, an amazing place.
And you really, you know, overwhelmed by a sense of kind of awe looking at these mountain ranges and, you know, so I grew up, you know, in the middle of that, and I got an undergraduate degree in geology and.
[00:04:41] Speaker C: In India.
[00:04:42] Speaker D: In India. And my minors were physics and chemistry. And I really liked the idea of applying the hard sciences like physics and chemistry to understanding something about our natural world. And that's what I loved about majoring in geology, because that's what you did. You applied the basic principles of physics and chemistry to trying to understand the history of the Earth.
When I graduated with my undergraduate degree, I had the option of, you know, I was thinking about what I wanted to do with my career, of course. And in India, the best job that you could get after you got a degree in geology was to actually work for an oil company, the Oil and Natural Gas Commission in India, where the jobs were, of course, very lucrative. And, you know, it could have been a good job, but that was not where my heart was. I wanted to understand something about other planets in our solar system. And I didn't even know exactly what I wanted to do, really, except that I had this dream of being able to be a geologist on Mars maybe, or the moon, other places. And I didn't know how to do that. But I thought, hey, you know, NASA does these really interesting things. They have spacecraft that go all over the solar system and study other. Other planets. Maybe there's something for me to do there. May the skills that I acquired in my undergraduate career studying the geology of the Earth could be applied to other planets. And that's what drove me to apply to graduate school in the United States with the hope that I might be involved in some NASA projects later on that were studying other planets.
And I was fortunate to get accepted to a graduate program at Washington University in St. Louis. Actually, they had a really, really strong planetary science program. And that's exactly what I did. I mean, I applied the skills that I learned in my undergraduate and, you know, applying the same skills to study the Earth. I applied those to studying rocks from places other than the Earth and trying.
[00:06:44] Speaker C: To understand and it all started with a lot of curiosity.
[00:06:48] Speaker D: All started with a lot. Yeah. I was always very curious about the, you know, questions. You know, I'd have lots of questions all the time.
[00:06:55] Speaker C: All the time.
[00:06:56] Speaker D: I'm sure my parents were sick of answering questions.
[00:06:59] Speaker C: Was it common for at the time in India for a female to at all? Not at all.
[00:07:05] Speaker D: Not at all. My parents were very unusual, I would say, because especially, I mean, in India when I was growing up, the expectations were very, very different for, for girls than they were for boys.
But my parents were very. Not traditional in the sense. And they valued education.
[00:07:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:26] Speaker D: And that I got that from them and I feel blessed for having that opportunity. They were very encouraging. They basically, they told me and my sister that we could do anything and be anything, be that we could dream of. And I carried that with me.
[00:07:41] Speaker C: And you did, did. Your vision became a reality.
Your research focuses on understanding the timescales and processes of planetary formation. What are some of the most exciting discoveries that your team has made about the early solar system?
[00:07:57] Speaker D: Well, one of the discoveries that I am proudest of is that my laboratory, we did analyses of the oldest solids that were formed in our solar system right as it was forming. We basically were able to determine the age of our solar system based on some of the dates that we determined for these objects.
We basically determined that the age of the solar system is 4, 5, 6, 8 million years old. So 4.568 billion.
So we can very, very precisely date the time of formation of our solar system from the work that we've done in my laboratory.
[00:08:42] Speaker C: Is this, Are there a lot of people in the world that do this or are you unique in that way?
[00:08:47] Speaker D: There's a handful of people that are working on these kinds of things. There's not a whole lot of people, but I would say, you know, there are a few laboratories in, across the world that have the capabilities to be able to do these kinds of analyses. But yeah, that's, that's kind of the, you know, sort of work that I enjoy doing.
[00:09:07] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, along those lines, you've also, you know, you hunted for meteorites in Antarctica with the ANSMET program.
[00:09:16] Speaker D: Yeah. The Antarctic search for meteorites.
[00:09:19] Speaker C: Is that okay?
[00:09:19] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:09:20] Speaker C: And what was the experience like? Why is Antarctica such a prime location for finding meteorites?
[00:09:26] Speaker D: Yeah, it was an incredible life changing experience for me. I actually got the opportunity to do that twice, once when I was a graduate student, and then 20 years later when I was a professor and I went back to Antarctica. And it's an amazing experience. To be able to go and hunt for these rocks from space. Right. The meteorites are these fragments of other asteroids and other planets that have fallen on the Earth as meteorites, basically. And Antarctica is an amazing place and you can't really describe it. And even the photographs don't do it justice really. It's such an incredible landscape.
And of course, I mean, when I went, I went in the austral summer, so that's during the months of, you know, November through January or February when there's 24 hours of daylight. And so, yeah, we were out on these ice fields hunting for these space rocks. And the reason why Antarctica is unique from the perspective of collecting meteorites is because, you know, meteorites don't fall on Antarctica any more often than any place else on Earth. Meteorites fall everywhere on Earth with the same probability. But Antarctica, of course, there's big ice sheets there and you see these dark rocks that fall there, you can actually see them quite easily.
In addition to that, there's also actually a conveyor belt like mechanism that happens there which is quite unique to Antarctica. So meteorites that fall on the ice sheets get trapped on the ice, in the ice actually, and get moved along as the ice moves. And then when it comes up against some kind of like mountain range or some kind of obstruction, the ice tends to move upwards. And because of the really, really high speed winds, the katabatic winds that are gravitationally driven, the ice sublimates. And so it unsurfaces or resurfaces in these areas and exposes these rocks that have fallen over the last maybe 100,000 years. And so you can actually get concentrations of meteorites in places that are maybe a small region like a football field or something like that. You can find hundreds of meteorites. And so there's this kind of concentration mechanism that actually helps to concentrate these meteorites in small places.
And so, yeah, we were able to go hunt for these meteorites on these ice fields and we found hundreds of them and collected hundreds of them. And it's an amazing experience. I mean, I understand theoretically kind of the process, but when you actually find this piece of rock that came from space, you know, yeah, what an experience. What an amazing experience.
[00:12:21] Speaker C: And as the Mars sample return, principal scientist at jpl, you're at the forefront of an incredibly ambitious mission. What are the biggest scientific questions you hope to answer with these samples?
[00:12:34] Speaker D: Yeah, that's actually a really, really one of the more exciting things that I'm involved in right now is this effort to bring back these Mars samples that are currently being collected by a rover that's on Mars right now. So it's the perseverance rover. I'm part of the science team for that rover mission that's collecting rocks right now, and we hope to be able to bring them back eventually. And so the mission to bring them back is currently in the planning phases, and I'm the principal scientist for that effort. And this is actually one of the really kind of very ambitious missions that is a collaborative one between the European Space Agency and NASA, and it will involve not just one spacecraft, but actually two. One of which is going to land on Mars and get the samples that are currently in the rover, the perseverance rover, transfer them over into a rocket, and then that rocket's going to launch and go into orbit around Mars, and a second spacecraft is going to meet that rocket and basically get the samples that are in the rocket and then bring them back to Earth.
[00:13:49] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:13:50] Speaker D: And so it's a very complicated mission, but very ambitious. And it's going to be the first time that we'll bring samples back from another planet in the solar system, as is ambitious.
[00:14:01] Speaker C: You know, the idea that by 2030, somebody's going to be going to Mars. Do you have any aspirations in that direction?
[00:14:09] Speaker D: I would love to go to Mars if that was a possibility. But, I mean, this is probably the closest that I'm going to be able to be a geologist on Mars is to actually bring these help to bring these samples back from Mars. And so, yeah, the plan is for these spacecraft to be launched sometime towards the 2030 timeframe and to have the samples back on earth by about 2035 or so. So that's what we're working towards. It's still in the planning phases.
[00:14:39] Speaker C: Wow, that's amazing to be part of that whole process. And I'm going to jump to something else here. There's so many areas that we can discuss. But your research delves into the origin and distribution of water in the solar system. Based on current evidence, how did Earth and other rocky planets acquire their water? And what key questions remain unanswered about that?
[00:15:04] Speaker D: That's actually one of the key questions that we have as human beings actually, is how did our own planet become a habitable one? How is it that you and I are here now and there's life on Earth? You know, we, of course, you know, know that Earth is a unique planet among, you know, solar system objects that we have and the planets that we have in the solar system.
It is the one place that we know we have Life. There might be life elsewhere, but we.
[00:15:36] Speaker C: Don'T know that yet.
[00:15:37] Speaker D: Well, we don't know that yet. And actually that's one of the big questions that we're trying to answer with bringing the rocks back from Mars is to understand whether there was life on Mars in the past.
And that might tell us something about the origins of life on our own planet. The question of water, though life as we know it requires water as one of the key ingredients. And trying to understand where that water came from is key to understanding the history of life on our own planet. And so as we understand it and from the kinds of analyses that we're doing in our laboratory, we're trying to understand where did that water come from? Was it actually something that was in the actual ingredients that made the building blocks that made up the Earth and that water was then degassed and became part of the atmosphere? Or was it actually delivered to us later from water rich objects that impacted the Earth, Early Earth?
The current evidence at this point suggests that there might have been an additional water rich impactors that came to the Earth that might have delivered a lot of the water to our planet.
And similarly, water could have been delivered to other places as well, like Mars for example.
[00:16:56] Speaker C: And that might have implications about the shortage of water that we're talking about in the future, right?
[00:17:02] Speaker D: Well, I mean, we don't really know exactly what the evolution in the future may look like, but at the current time at least, you know, we know that the complement of water that we have on the surface of the Earth, for example, some of it came from degassing of the Earth's interior, but a lot of it also actually came from being delivered from water rich asteroids or cometary objects. And so, yeah, I mean, I think that's really kind of key to understanding kind of how Earth evolved from where it started. And so I think, you know, that's part of the work that I'm involved in trying to do is to, and there's still some open questions, you know.
[00:17:42] Speaker C: Unravel all of that.
[00:17:43] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah.
[00:17:50] Speaker A: You are listening to the Owlcast, the official podcast of ACS Athens.
[00:18:10] Speaker B: You are listening to the President's edition of The Owlcast with Dr. Peggy Pelones and Dr. Meenakshi Iwadwa who visited our school this February along with her husband, Dr. Scott Parazinski for the 80 years gala celebration of ACS Athens. Dr. Oadua had the opportunity to meet with our students and talk about curiosity, space and seeking opportunities for all to explore science. Stay tuned.
[00:18:41] Speaker C: So Mina, you've held a number of leadership roles at asu, NASA, various scientific societies. What have you learned about leading in a world of science? And what advice would you give to young people, young researchers aspiring to follow your footsteps?
[00:18:58] Speaker D: Gosh, you know, I feel that there's a lot of opportunity, especially for young folks who are thinking about careers in science.
There's an opportunity to really communicate the importance of science and engineering and what it can bring to humanity and the benefits that it can bring to humanity. Because, you know, we think about all of the ways in which science and understanding in science has improved our lives as human beings, and it's hard to overstate the importance of that. Right. And just you don't have to be necessarily a scientist, but to be able to appreciate the importance of the knowledge that we gain through the scientific process and be able to value that. Right. I mean, I think there was, for example, a lot of skepticism, you know, around the science, around at the time of the pandemic, for example. And I think if we understand and value what science can bring to us, there can be a lot that we can do, and there's many lives that we can save that way. And just being able to appreciate, you know, the impact and understanding can help us. I mean, understanding climate change, for example.
[00:20:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:16] Speaker D: Our world is changing as we speak, and it's evolving into a state that, you know, we will probably have to understand better to really be able to sustain our water resources, basically help humanity survive over the long term. And so I think anyone in any kind of leadership role, you know, I think if you can help to communicate the importance of that science to the broader community and to the broader society and the value that it brings, I think that's going to be one of the key things that you can do.
[00:20:52] Speaker C: So that work can be carried on. And you do a lot of that in education. I see, obviously, you're here speaking to children, which is very important.
And as a distinguished scientist and leader in planetary science, you've witnessed the evolving representation of women in stem. Why is it crucial to foster greater gender diversity in fields like planetary science? And what barriers still need to be overcome to ensure more women pursue and thrive in the. In these careers?
[00:21:23] Speaker D: Well, you know, I think that there are, you know, more women and more diversity in terms of representation in science than there ever was, but we're not nearly there in terms of equally representing the gender balance, especially in scientific fields and in engineering fields. I think that's a disservice because if you're not tapping into the talent of Half the population, then you're basically losing the capacity to really do the best that you can. And so I feel really lucky that I had the opportunity to do the kinds of things that I love to do. And I know that there are girls and women out there who are equally as talented and equally as invested and committed to wanting to participate in the scientific enterprise. And they have a lot to contribute. And so I think I really feel very strongly that talent is equally distributed among everybody, among all of humanity, but opportunity is not. And that's what drives me, actually, in my own leadership role, in my own sort of position in education and research, is to try to create more opportunity. And I think that there's a lot of talent out there among girls, among among all kinds of populations, but that we're not tapping into it right now. And I think that's where.
[00:23:02] Speaker C: Well, you're certainly doing your part to make sure that changes.
What are the most impactful ways to inspire and support young girls and women in pursuing careers in science? Because I think part of it is opportunity, but part of it is, at some point, they seem to lose interest. Perhaps the educational system. I'm not sure. Are there specific programs, mentorship approaches, or institutional changes that have proven effective in creating lasting opportunities and fostering this kind of inclusivity?
[00:23:30] Speaker D: Yes. I mean, so there's lots of things that we could be doing that can help sort of address some of the systemic things that have kept women from being able to participate as much as they can.
I think being able to see role models out there, people that look like themselves and people that are doing the work and doing the signs, I think just having that representation makes. Makes a lot of difference. And so, you know, just being able to see faculty and professors and researchers and scientists in those positions, and there's more of us now than there ever happened. So I think representation matters, and so that makes a difference. I think mentorship is a huge thing, and the mentors can, you know, can be diverse. I mean, so you need allies in the sort of efforts to bring forward the talent and all the capacity that exists among women and other parts of our population that are not so well represented in the sciences.
Mentorship, I think, can be a huge factor. I was very lucky to have had some excellent, amazing, committed mentors.
I feel like there's a way for us to pay forward in the same way and serve as mentors for a lot of the people.
[00:24:54] Speaker C: Exactly, yeah. With upcoming missions, new technologies, and exciting discoveries on the horizon, what are you most excited about for the future? Of planetary science and exploration.
[00:25:06] Speaker D: So, yes, I am of course, most excited about bringing samples back from other places in our solar system. Of course. That is exciting. And of course, I mean, human example, exploration of these places. So, you know, astronauts having the ability to go to other places like moon and Mars and being able to do what they do in terms of understanding the geology, understanding the environment.
So, yeah, no, I think this is actually a really, really exciting time in planetary science, in life.
[00:25:35] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. You actually have an asteroid named after you.
[00:25:40] Speaker D: I do.
[00:25:40] Speaker C: Can you tell us about that?
[00:25:42] Speaker D: Yeah.
So, yeah, there's an asteroid called Asteroid Wadwa, and my parents were very, very proud of that one because it's. Yeah. The family name. Right, right.
Yeah. I mean, it's the work that I do. It's one of the things that was kind of. I'm really kind of thrilled about that. That particular honor.
[00:26:06] Speaker C: But what an incredible honor at the.
[00:26:09] Speaker D: Same time, I mean. Yeah, I mean, it's one of the things that, you know, it's the work that I love. And, you know, that's just. That's just icing on the cake. Yeah.
[00:26:19] Speaker C: And that just proves that when you do what you love, you know, the success just comes after that. If you had. I know this is kind of cliche, but if you had one piece of advice to give to young students today in high school, what would you say to them?
[00:26:32] Speaker D: I would say that, you know, keep that spark of curiosity alive.
I think, you know, a lot of us are born with that innate curiosity. As kids. We were always, you know, why, why, why do we do this? Why do we do that? And somehow as we grow older, somehow we lose that somewhere along the way and we get feel maybe a little jaded about things. And, you know, I think try to keep that spark of curiosity alive that really sort of drives so much innovation and so much excitement and all the possibilities. I think there's ways to sort of keep yourself kind of engaged and excited about new possibilities.
That's so important.
[00:27:15] Speaker C: Always discovering new things.
[00:27:17] Speaker D: Yes.
[00:27:17] Speaker C: Asking questions.
[00:27:18] Speaker D: Asking questions.
[00:27:19] Speaker C: Completely agree. Well, Mina, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been an absolute pleasure. I look forward to the time when you're going to be speaking to the students, especially the young ones. I know they're so excited to meet you.
[00:27:31] Speaker D: Thank you. It's a pleasure talking to you as well. Thank you.
[00:27:38] Speaker A: You are listening to the owlcast, the official podcast of ACS Athens. Make sure you subscribe to the Allcast on Google podcast, Spotify and Apple podcasts. This has been a production of the ACS Athens Media Studio.
